We believe

That It’s All.About.Spike


“Spike is strong, intelligent, amazingly intuitive, a flashy fighter, ballsy and yet vulnerable, and he has a sometimes surprising sense of honor. Plus, he's the ultimate underdog. Take away the 'ship and the redemption, and you still have a potent character who polarizes the audience because of the complexity -- and sometimes contrariness -- of his nature.

But that's the fun of Spike. :) Controversy, daring, romance, heroism, hope, failure, laughter, expectation, suspense...it's what puts my butt on the couch in front of the TV every Tuesday night”



”Spike has his journey to get to love and acceptance in Fool For Love.  He wants to belong, who wants the light when he should want the dark, to be scene and accepted. The constant battle of the man vs. the monster. Ulysses was a peaceful farmer who was drafted in the Trojan War and went to various obstacles to get back home. In the end he made to the sun and back to his home in the end.

We have Spike’s origins shown to us in Fool For Love. William who was drafted by Dru to fight along the side of darkness now Spike is on the opposing side but in the end he will get back to enlightenment to himself again in the end. He won't be William but he will be a balanced being of the monster and the men.

Joss said that Spike is what Giles never fully became (a juvenile delinquent) and Spike tried to avoid what Giles became (a useful member of society). But Giles found the balance between the Ripper and the man”



”The writers know what they're doing. Every time they make Spike the victim, every time they show us his pain and his loneliness, while the Scoobies party on oblivious-

They're putting more viewers in Spike's shoes. They are DARING you the viewer NOT to empathise with him. It's a bold move for them to make, with regards to someone we have seen commit cold-blooded murder with a smile. It's very daring. They gave us Big Bad Spike, in all his ugliness. Then they proceeded to pick him apart and show us all his flaws and weaknesses. But rather than brushing all the bad stuff under the rug, they periodically remind us. "This is who Spike is. This is what he is capable of. He's not a Nice Man. He's not a man at all." Then they dare you not to love him anyway....”



“ME isn't making this easy for Buffy, or for us in the audience. Yet ironically, Buffy's doubts and reservations about their relationship continue to paint Spike, longing for real love, as even more sympathetic. But at the same time, as well as ME's strategy has worked to give Spike depth, intensity and vulnerability to match his popularity with a large part of the audience, there's another part of the audience, perhaps equally large, who will never accept Spike as anything more than a murderous vampire.Spike is a lightning rod for the show, a figure of controversy that Angel, split into his good Angel/evil Angelus sides, could never be, because Spike is portrayed as one soulless, complete character, with no easy spells or curses to resolve his fate.

As frustrating as it occasionally is to watch Spike forever walking the narrow edge between right and wrong, I have to respect ME for not taking any easy outs with him. I think he's capable of change, and ME has shown that; but I don't know how much change he can achieve. That's the hook, really, the suspense of his journey. There's no real suspense with Angel; he's trying to be good, and he fails occasionally, but he'll always eventually pick himself up and carry on with the support of his crew. Spike has no one and nothing to support his change, and often strong motives to act otherwise; how long can he, or will he keep going? How often will he backslide? How long can he stay on that narrow edge?”



"I don't want Saint!Spike - he doesn't have to feel really really bad about all the evil things he did - but he does have to decide he won't be doing them anymore. And if he decides to do that by *keeping* the chip (given an opportunity to have it out) then I will be happy.

Someone suggested that Spike may be redeemed by redeeming Buffy. I thought it sounded good at the time, as an extension of my belief that Buffy will be integral to Spike's redemption. The decision Spike makes must, I think, involve his recognising the sanctity of life. I think Spike is 'getting' that now - "You have to go on living/So one of us is living" and his references in Gone - (paraphrasing) "The opposite of life is death".

As he works with Buffy to restore her joy in life, and her sense of what it is to be alive, his understanding of what "living" means will grow. More than that, the value he attributes to life will grow. Who said that the best way to learn is to teach?

Whether he sees the Summers women and Scoobies in every potential victim, whether he is revolted by the thought of drinking blood or whether he craves it but keeps the chip as a safety override, doesn't bother me. Have I just described reform? Probably, but with one extra ingredient - he has to want it. Somewhere, there has to be a choice. That's the magical redemption ingredient."



"To me, Spike is redeemed when he decides that his old lifestyle is one he doesn't want to go back to.I think he's closer to that place than he is willing to consciously admit, as evidenced by his hesitancy in the alley in 'Smashed'.

Spike can help Buffy in a number of ways, but I think the main way Buffy can help Spike is to finally get him to let go of the Big Bad and become the person he could be (Randy, more or less). I think by his nature, Spike isn't really capable of wallowing in guilt like Angel, and in a sense he already understands what Angel didn't get until 'Epiphany' - i.e. his comments in 'Pangs' about the impossibility of making things right with the Chumash Indians.

He has everything he needs right now to embark on a life as a decent person - motivation in the form of Buffy and maybe Dawn and the ability to empathize with the suffering of others due to his own pain. He just needs to put the pieces together and convince himself that he can in fact be good."



"William was socially immature (probably because he was so sensitive) so that lack was brought to the vampiric William. Add to that the naturally sociopathy of a vampire and Spike, however willing, cannot change his behaviour in a positive way without interacting with human beings and getting 'feedback'.

Spike without people would be like a boy raised by wolves. His behaviour has been inappropriate even when his intentions were not. Finally, of course, without live people in whom he has a vested emotional stake, Spike would have no motivation for a behavioural change.

Of course I've already made it clear that I believe a change in behaviour is a necessary beginning to redemption. I don't think the original motivation for the change is really as important as the end result. Paraphrasing Spike, it's not where you begin, it's where you end up that counts. Children don't behave well because they aspire to some esoteric principal of goodness. They behave well because they want to please their mothers/fathers. They behave to receive love. Given all that, at some point everyone has to make a conscious choice to be good. It needs to be a decision to identify oneself as good.

To me, Spike will be redeemed when he looks in a mirror and sees the wall behind him and says, "I don't want to be the Big Bad, I want to be the Poofster Hero. Bugger me!" Actually when I think about it, that moment may be less a decision and more an acceptance of what he has already become. But there is still a line one crosses. There is still a Free Will moment when one decides what side one is on. Spike needs to freely make that decision. When he does, I will consider him to be redeemed.

I'm a pretty devout Christian. Amongst my buds, I'm the one who twists doctrine, but choosing goodness (Christ) is the only absolute pre-requisite to salvation. Remorse, absolution, penance and stuff are important. But if you accept grace, you are saved. Apocrypha states that Satan himself could be saved if he accepted grace. He remains unredeemed because he continuously rejects God"



"I just watched AtS "Sanctuary" the other day (the episode ends where Faith finally turns herself in). Angel's take on Faith's situation: Angel reminds Faith that she didn't have to go into the darkness, but she chose it in the first place. He says no matter how many things you do to make up for the past, you may never be able to "balance out the cosmic scale." Personally I don't think it's about balance. It's about doing good for goodness's sake! He agrees with Faith that there are definitely things that can't be taken back with an apology, but the thing that really counts is whether you are sorry. He tells her it's supposed to hurt. If she deals with those feelings, then maybe she can be free.

In the end, Faith is redeemed when she turns herself in and confesses to the police. The Scoobies seem to agree that the police can't effectively hold Faith, so the fact that she stays in jail may be as much of her choice as going to the police in the first place.

I think Faith's redemption comes when she accepts responsibility and accepts her punishment. Everything's not hunky dory, but the point is she's on the right side. Of course Buffy doesn't agree with this: "If you apologize to me, I'll beat you to death!" she tells Faith. But that's not surprising.

I agree with Ann that penance and doing good things are definitely important, but really it's all about the choice. Angel really doesn't get this as much as he should. He really needs to give himself a break, in my opinion. Working for the good guys counts way more than he gives himself credit for. Yeah, I know, his mission, and all that. The big thing that hit me about this episode was the contrast between the approach to dealing with Faith's redemption and the approach to dealing with Spike's. I'm sure this is not an original thought, but it amazed me how Angel had to push and push (through a 2 episode arc) to get Faith to accept she needed help and ask for it. At the end of "Five By Five" (the first episode in this arc), she exclaims, "I'm bad, I'm evil!" She doesn't want forgiveness or redemption, she wants Angel to kill her - the quick and easy way. She doesn't demonstrate a wish to reform until much later. Spike, in contrast, says "I can be good," and shows he is a man of his word (no need to rehash his good deeds of late), yet the Scoobies refuse to believe him and make little to no effort to help him.

I don't need to mention Buffy's lack of personal cheerleading on this point, but there it is. The debate about the fact that a soul doesn't equal good is old hat, but I am just appalled that Faith, who has done some pretty bad things without showing any remorse, would merit more help than Spike. Soul or none, why doesn't one of the gang think, "Hey, Spike seems to be on a tentative path towards being good. That is of the good. Why don't we help him out and give him lots of affirmation?" I guess there is the history and the personal differences, but still."




"Two things amaze me about Spike.

The first is that the vulnerable William did somehow find a way to survive as Spike.

The second is that after 120+ years Spike still holds so much of William's humanity within him.

The socially awkward William who longed to be accepted gave way to Spike the rebel. William the bloody awful poet became Spike with his sharp wit and incisive perceptions. William who had such a capacity and need to be in love became Spike who stayed with Drusilla for all those years, and has not once turned his back on Buffy since he realized he loved her.

Spike has spent all these years fated to carry William's unresolved anguishes around with him. He's disguised them with his big bad persona, but those human hurts -rejection, shame, loneliness- that belonged to William are now immortal too. Imagine having your worst fears and insecurities with you for all eternity. We know vampires have feelings.

Spike hasn't just shown an extraordinary ability to adapt and survive in the world, he's shown unbelievable emotional resilience, even courage. Time after time, he picks himself up, brushes himself off and goes back for the next round without despair or too much fuss. He still basically loves the world and wants to be in it. Despite over 100 years of evidence to the contrary, he still has reasons to hope. That's some leap of faith."



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